Women Shattering Ceilings: An Interview with Kristine Barr

As more organizations invest in growing work cultures that are welcoming to diverse professionals, I’ve wondered what role women leaders CAN play in elevating, amplifying, and advocating for female colleagues? This is especially relevant in industries that remain male-dominated or in organizations where leadership lacks diversity.

Kristine Barr is a magnificent example of an accomplished professional who practiced tenacity, courage and raw determination to rise to the leadership position she holds today and, in her role, has lowered the ladder for women around her.

A leader and principal of a well-known and respected Mid-Atlantic engineering firm, Kristine’s journey from Associate to Partner was not a swift one. It required flexibility, persistence, sacrifice and years of focused effort and determination.

I had the tremendous, good fortune of working for Kristine early in my career and can speak to her qualities as a leader, advocate, and professional. She’s also exceedingly warm and approachable. When I began pondering key mentors who had left a lasting impression. Kristine immediately came to mind.

What follows is an abbreviated version of our conversation. It’s peppered with wisdom, thoughtful strategies and advice from which both women and their advocates can benefit.

What initially drew you to the field of engineering?

When I decided to leave college, one of my first jobs was as an administrative assistant at an architecture firm. In that role, I discovered that architects and engineers have a difficult time managing tasks outside of architecture and engineering. I’m not sure why, but they typically don’t like to talk about the details of scope development, proposal writing, negotiating fees, or client development.

I began to wonder—How can I help them be more successful in these areas or give them the tools they need to be successful? Over the years, I learned and honed my strengths in program planning, resource management, budgeting and other areas I like to call the softer side of architecture and engineering.

When I joined my current firm, they didn’t have a formal position for me. But they had heard about and liked what I had accomplished for my clients and so they created a role for me. I’ve been here now for almost 20 years.

Who was an early advocate of yours?

Absolutely Tom Della Penna. When I initially started working for the architecture firm, he was a regional engineer for AT&T, one of our key clients. I learned that AT&T rewarded their teams with an annual bonus if their projects were completed on time and within budget.

Tom was bemoaning the fact that his team kept missing the mark and was trying to figure out a way to stay on track throughout the year. I thought “we can help with that.” All we needed was a more complete tracking system. So, I designed one. And for five years in a row, all of his team’s projects were done on time and within budget. Everyone on Tom’s team received a bonus, and he didn’t forget the role that we played in helping them get it done – for his team and for others on the AT&T team.

As a result of this work, our firm was awarded a new, $5 million contract from AT&T. During an early team call, Tom shared that he had gone to bat for us precisely because of the way we helped him and his team.

Outside of that call, my boss described getting the contract as “a fluke” or a random win. I didn’t receive the recognition or reward that I thought I would, and they actually put an architect in charge of the contract going forward.

Wow. How disappointing! What did you do?

Months later when I was meeting with Tom, he asked—“Were you ever rewarded for landing the $5 million contract?” I was candid without slamming the firm and I told him: “I’m sure they’ll take care of me.”

“Kristine, if they’re not taking care of you, I’d suggest you quit, go out on your own and I’ll hire you as a consultant.”

Which is exactly what I did.

Tom told me I was good enough. He advised me: “If they don’t take care of you, don’t stand for it.”

Tom and I remain friends today and I still thank him all the time. Because he used his privilege to vocally advocate for me, I became the consultant others wanted to know and work with because I had this powerful connection.

What’s been the greatest surprise for you working in a male-dominated field?

One thing I’ve had to learn is to adapt my communication style to who I’m talking to. Men can be easily offended and very sensitive about their work. They hold much of their identity in what they do.

I’m a people person and I’m not afraid of getting up and dropping by someone else’s desk to ask a few questions. But what I’ve discovered is that many engineers don’t like this! They prefer an email or phone call. So, I’ve changed my leadership style and how I communicate with them.

At the end of project meetings, I like to ask colleagues about their kids or family. What I’ve discovered is that not everyone enjoys personal conversations or small talk. So, I’ve adjusted. I pay attention to visual and verbal cues and adapt how I communicate with a person instead of expecting them to adapt to me.

In addition, instead of dreading a “difficult conversation,” I try to create opportunities for learning something I may have overlooked.

For example, in discussing a group of projects that I think were less successful because the fees were too low or the team struggled to work together effectively, instead of gearing up for a fight, I might say “let’s take a look at these types of projects with this particular client and discuss how we are approaching fees and production.”

Everyone wants the opportunity to be heard and if you give them that opportunity through discussion, feelings don’t get hurt. It also models the behavior that you want to see in others. When you are prepared with data and information and you’re willing to listen then you can work together to develop a solution that doesn’t attack someone’s pride.

What’s the biggest challenge facing women working in your field today?

Great question. I know a lot of young, female engineers who are starting families. I’m seeing them struggle with the decision to pause their careers to take maternity leave and worry about whether they’ll lose their positions in the firm, whether they’ll be taken seriously, whether they’ll get the best projects when they return. Maybe they’re considering reducing their hours to something less than 40 hours a week.

I wish as an industry we could understand that work life balance, family, adoption, pregnancy and childbirth are a part of life and women should be celebrated and supported when they make life changing decisions. I see many young engineers struggling with the “what if” of those decisions. Instead of adding to the stress of an already stressful situation, we should be creating ways to ease the burden of their choice.

A recent poll by one of the leading architecture and engineering trade journals interviewed engineers. They found 0% of men had considered leaving the industry whereas 70% of women have considered leaving. If we don’t adjust as an industry, it’s going to be difficult to recruit and retain the best.

What’s been the greatest reward?

When I first joined this firm, there were only three female engineers. Today we have 25. Seeing these women come in and join our teams has been the biggest reward. We’ve had many new women rolling into project management, too and they’re outstanding!

We now have a women’s group at the firm that started as an informal group for lunches and happy hours. It’s since evolved into a community that discusses issues, participates in conferences and stays active in the industry and community.

This year, we have monthly programs to address the different characteristics of “executive presence.” We realized that as we take on more responsibilities for outward facing roles at the firm, it was important that we prepare ourselves in the areas of effective communication, confidence, courage, empathy, and authenticity. In addition, we’re reading articles and discussing issues around pay equity, maternity leave and other topics. By sharing information and talking, we’re learning that we’ve all had experiences that have been awkward or difficult when we were the only woman in the room. Discussing these as a group, in a safe space, we’re coming up with ways to overcome these issues. It’s encouraging change from within.

When voices unite and are saying the same thing, it’s hard to be ignored. People step up and make changes. I’m proud of our firm for doing so.

What would you say to your 25-year-old self today?

Understand your value. Too often, women don’t brag about themselves. They don’t toot their own horn.

We work in an open office environment, and I hear men approach senior leadership and talk about how well a job is going or what big challenge they just solved. I very rarely see women do the same thing. We need to share our achievements and amplify other women, too.

Just recently, I was in a conversation with one of our senior engineers when a younger female colleague walked by. I knew she was managing a pretty significant project and was doing a great job with it. So, as she passed, I made a comment praising her, “you know, she’s managing this great project…” and he asked about it. This allowed her to share more specifics and what was working so well.

When we amplify someone else’s success or accomplishment, it opens the door to acknowledgment, which is good for everyone.

How can women best set themselves up for success in fields that are slowly diversifying?

Well, we can start by not expecting someone to recognize our value just because they should. You’ve got to tell them what your value is and what you’re doing to practice it.

When I joined the firm, I never thought I’d make partner because I’m not trained as an engineer. However, after ten years, I was nominated five years in a row. I still never thought I’d make partner, but I also understood that no matter what happened, I would continue to grow and develop and set an example of what I thought a partner should be.

That’s a powerful intention. Still, I imagine many others (myself included) might’ve quit trying. Can you share more about how you navigated this period?

After my first nomination, senior leadership acknowledged that I was performing at a high level, but not high enough to merit ownership. Together, they defined expectations for me to achieve partnership. They suggested that I meet with each senior principal and so I set up one-on-one meetings with each of them individually. I asked each partner: “If I can step up and meet these goals in the next year, will I have your support?” Most partners said yes, and some said yes, but didn’t share what they were actually feeling.

I kept very careful notes from every meeting, and this was crucial.

Year 2

My second nomination occurred the following year. Again, the partners denied my promotion. This time, they claimed they didn’t like my communication approach. They suggested some people found me difficult because I was too assertive. To address this, I started working with a leadership coach and worked on my communication styles. In fact, I even led classes for colleagues on how to have difficult conversations, how to write more effectively, how to improve your executive presence, how to reduce risk and other relevant topics.

Year 3

The next year, I was nominated again and again rejected. The principals said: “We don’t understand what you do.” I realized that women, we sometimes make work look easy. I changed my approach and documented my successes and accomplishments throughout the following year. Having taught the class on communications, I was attuned to not only what was said, but what leadership was communicating nonverbally--none of the senior principals would look at me during this meeting.

I knew from my training that when delivering difficult news, it’s key we listen to what the other side has to say and respond to them as openly as possible. However, that wasn’t happening.

I’ve also found in a lot of situations, it’s powerful to come to a conversation with data that validates what you’re saying. Men often push—“tell me why”—they want proof. We can’t discount this. We must be able to negotiate.

Year 4

With my fourth nomination, the partners said: “We don’t understand how a non-engineer could be a partner.” I reminded them that when I was first nominated (3 years earlier), they didn’t tell me I wouldn’t be considered because I was not an engineer. I wanted an honest and open discussion about my future. I said, “I feel as though every year you’re throwing up a different obstacle and each time I meet your expectations, you find a new obstacle.” I knew that I wasn’t going to pursue an engineering degree. I had to decide whether I wanted to stay or go.

Then something powerful happened. A lightbulb went off. I realized, no matter what, I can look everybody in the eye. I’ve done my best. I’ve given 110% to this firm. I’m behaving like a partner. I’m setting an example. All of my work in the areas of leadership and communication had improved my personal and professional relationships, so on a lot of fronts I was already winning! I only had to continue doing what I was doing, enjoying my work, and decide if this was the place I wanted to continue to work. Was becoming a principal really that important to me? I have wonderful relationships; I am surrounded by a team of outstanding professionals who work hard every day.

Year 5

I was nominated for the fifth time in 2020. I was selected and have been a principal in the firm for the last two years.

That’s quite a journey—congratulations! Any other lasting advice?

Celebrate ALL that you are. Have a sense of humor. Show up every day as your true, authentic self, ready to help others be their best.

I’ve read studies that women often have a “home self” and a “work self” and the further apart they are, the more stressful our lives can be. Work as hard as you can to be the same person in both places.

Women are worried that they won’t be accepted, that we’re not enough somehow or need to act differently in these different settings. Yet, the women I’ve enjoyed the most are open about their weaknesses and vulnerable. They give themselves and their colleagues grace and forgiveness, and they are honest.

Now that the world is opening back up, what vacation are you most looking forward to?

My stepson’s mom lives in Paris. We travelled there 8 years ago, and she was supposed to visit us in 2020. So, planning a family trip to Paris is always on my list and then another trip to Cote d’Ivoire for a giant family reunion that’s in the works.

Sounds like a wonderful plan. Thank you so much for your time.